Fictive Alters in Dissociative Identity Disorder
There are many different types of alters in dissociative identity disorder (DID), including fictional introjects (Understanding Dissociative Identity Disorder Alters). Fictional introjects, also called fictives, are alters that are based off of fictional people or characters. While not as common as other types of alters, fictives are just as important. So how do these fictive alters in DID form, and what is their purpose?
How Do Fictive Alters in DID Systems Form?
Introjects are alters that are based off outside people or characters. Fictional introjects specifically are based off of fictional characters. These characters can be from television shows, movies, books, fantasy, and other forms of fiction.
Why Do Fictive Alters Form?
Fictive alters in DID form to serve a purpose. While that purpose is not always known, it is possible that the DID system needed the qualities of that fictional character and internalized them to form the fictional introject in response to a trauma. Fictives can also form to disrupt the system. While fictives often form in childhood, people with DID can form new alters at any time, especially in response to recent trauma.
Myths About Fictional Introjects
There are a few assumptions that people have about fictional introjects in DID, but the reality is that there are no concrete characteristics that all fictives possess. Dissociative identity disorder in itself consists of such varying experiences, and DID alters are no different.
One assumption that people make about fictives is that fictives are always positive. Fictives can have positive qualities, but they can also have negative qualities and engage in harmful or risky behaviors. Some fictional introjects can be abusive, and form as a way to continue traumatizing the system.
There is another assumption that fictives are based entirely off of the fictional character. The reality is that fictives can have their own qualities and personalities apart from those of the fictional character. Some fictive alters can be predominantly similar to the character, while others take on just a few of the characteristics. They don't have to think, act, look, or feel in the exact same ways that the fictional character does. This doesn't make them any less valid.
Fictional introjects aren't chosen purposefully. Just like other dissociative identity disorder alters, fictional introjects develop subconsciously for a reason. Fictives are not made up. They are not a part of a game. Fictives are real. They can hold memories and can experience trauma just as any other alter can.
The Controversy Surrounding Fictional Introjects in DID
Unfortunately, there is controversy, even within the DID community, surrounding the legitimacy and validity of fictional introjects in DID systems. Some people believe that fictional introjects are fake, and cannot occur in a real DID system. Others believe that fictives exist, but only within certain limitations.
It's important to validate that fictional introjects, or fictives, are a real part of DID systems. People are quick to judge fictives as real or fake, yet this judgment doesn't exist for other types of alters.
Fictives deserve the same treatment as any other alter or part. They are real. They are valid. Don't forget that.
Matulewicz, C. (2018, February 28). Fictive Alters in Dissociative Identity Disorder, HealthyPlace. Retrieved on 2024, February 27 from https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/dissociativeliving/2018/02/fictional-introjects-in-dissociative-identity-disorder
Author: Crystalie Matulewicz
You wont debunk because there's nothing to debunk, lol.
Absolutely. I even question sometimes whether or not I have DID, even though I speak with my alters regularly. It could very well be some other disorder, but it seems to fit this description best. Seeing others pretend they have it, makes me feel sick.
while i agree with you, did/osdd isn't actually rare. Teach Trauma has an article that talks about it a bit, but if you look it up, it's not rare.
This is true,while most people think it's rare,it's only rate to be diagnosed with,because these specific disorders are good at hiding themselves
DID/OSDD/P-DID is not considered particularly rare - on the upper end of estimates, it's prevalent in around 1.5% of the population - seemingly rare at a glance, but roughly on par with the frequency of autism, and that's if it isn't underdiagnosed which, considering surface-level similarities to BPD and Schizoaffective disorders that it's often been historically mistaken for, is quite likely.
As far as the debate around whether it actually exists, much of this is due to the sensationalization of the topic. There have been numerous MRI studies that have shown concrete and consistent differences in the brains of individuals with DID (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246874992030017X).
I'm part of a traumagenic system, and one of our first alters to form - around when we were 8 - was a fictive. To hear them tell it, they think they imprinted heavily onto the character's ability to ignore their amnesia and unsureness around their own personality to do what was right and protect what they cared about. Because, well, the whole amnesia thing. They've since grown along with all the rest of us, but still hold that sentiment close.
The reason DID has a bad reputation is because people keep portraying us as serial killers or otherwise arbitrarily violent (see: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, The Incredible Hulk, Danganronpa's Toko & Jill, like half of the villains in Moon Knight and arguably moon knight himself, etc.), not really because people online might have misconceptions of it.
As someone who does actually have DID (though, I don't struggle with it; we actually have things organized quite nicely up here. We all got big into anarchism over the pandemic, so things are pretty much running on consensus rules. Only tricky bit for us is the amnesia.) it really doesn't hurt me if someone winds up saying they have DID and being wrong. There's a difference between deliberately faking something, and stumbling on the wrong term to describe your experience.
What hurts me infinitely more is the endless supply of people that seem to know *exactly* what this under-researched disorder *truly* is, and try to make sure to explain to everybody who's experiencing it why they can't actually have it. People constantly police who's allowed to use it "to protect the real ones", or just because they read some shit online about how it works and want an excuse to feel right on the internet. Don't attack people in my name, please.
Hi!!! How do you all feel about doubles? Like, you know all about yourself and your life, but then another system also has a fictive of the same character, and they say different things about your life and personality. Do you feel like you are the only real you, or like they are an alternative version of you? Also, do you hate other fictives of the same character, love them, or don't mind them? I'm very curious about systems and I don't wanna ask the system I know too many questions and overwhelm them!
I (a fictive) personally don’t mind them ^^ I see them as different versions of myself since I believe in alternate universes’ existence! But different fictives have different views tho~ it’s better to ask then individually (*´꒳`*)
Doubles can be a little overwhelming... but it's fine as long as you remember that them existing doesn't make you any less real. I don't really hate others of me, but I won't be particularly fond of them.
Hi! My name is Kokichi and I’m in an OSDD system with many alters from popular sources(fanfics, a few animes, and danganronpa) that have many doubles- personally, our system doesn’t mind doubles and actually enjoys sharing stories and remembering positive source memories with the double. Our system does quite enjoy them! We personally see them as just another AU of us(as most of us are used to AU’s of themselves showing up out of nowhere in the inner world, out here isn’t much different) and so it isn’t to weird- pleasure meeting you!
Hello! Fictive here! (Puss from the Puss In Boots films), personally the fictives in our system are uncomfortable with doubles (Myself included) as we already question whether or not we actually exist, it bothers us to see doubles, because, then, it'll cause us to question more if we're real or not. But of course! Every system is different! That's just us!
Personally, I'm fine with them. I am, or at least started, as a fictive of Shadow the Hedgehog. Seeing other versions of myself brings up a lot of questions, but myself and the double already have a quick and easy way to break that tension - "faker? I think you're the fake hedgehog around here."
I just wanted to gain insight on whether peoples fictive alters can speak up on systematic oppression or racism based on the race the fictive alter is (e.g the fictive alter is Japanese - can they ultimately speak on behalf of racism towards Japanese people and whether they agree about things such as cultural appropriation - or does it depend??)
I can only speak for my case, but though I’m a fictional introject with essentially a life’s worth of fake memories of my source, because the body is still white I try to stay within that lane. People aren’t going to see me as of Japanese descent, they’re going to see me as white because that’s that the body looks like. At this point I’ve accepted that because it would be weird to see a pasty white girl saying ‘As someone of Asian descent…’ and I fee like that’s the only real approach you can take.
Hi! I'm a white person and I'm not a system but I'd like to think that I am fairly educated on the experiences of POC,
As you may know, being part of other oppressed groups such as the LGBT+ community (which I am a part of,) or of the disabled/neurodivergent communities out there, (which I am also part of) if you are white, you still won't share the same type of oppression that POC face on a day-to-day basis.
Of course, people within other oppressed groups still face their own troubles, but one thing you cannot hide (other than a physical deformity) is your race. People of colour cannot hide the natural features of their body like queer and neurodivergent people can hide their inner differentiations from the typical Straight White Cis Neurotypical Abled Male person can.
People of colour- Black people, Asian people, Indigenous people, and all the other people of colour who may not easily pass as white, are threatened, hurt, murdered and abused every single day. Many places, especially America, are built on a system that oppresses and uses people of colour at the expense of white people. White people always have the upper hand in situations involving POC, such as law, trials, work, abuse, and the general "public eye".
If you are white, you do not have the same perspective of the cruelness of society that people of colour do. Again, you may have other things going on, but you do not have the same angle as POC.
Now, I still have much to learn about different types of systems, and I've loosely heard of 'false memories' and the debacle of whether they may exist in fictive alters or not.
I'm guessing this will vary from person to person, as everybody can experience mental disorders differently. Although. In the outer world, you do not face the same trials and tribulations as those of colour if you are white.
Therefore, even as an alter of a different race, if your host's body is white, I don't think you should speak on the behalf of POC in the outer world. You may speak up for them, but do not speak on behalf of them. There is a fine line.
I hope this helps! :) if I've gotten anything wrong, I'm open to being educated.
Please do not do this. Even if your system has pesudo memories, they are in the end, pesudo (not real), and are in no way are as true or as real as experiences of PoC in every day life.
You can advocate for PoC and show support but just because your fictive is Japanese and you have pesudo memories of Japan speaking for them is insulting and belittling the experiences they have in day to day life.
We don’t, ultimately because the body is white. It’d be downright weird to see a pale and pasty white body say “as someone of Hispanic decent” or “as someone of Japanese decent” or even German(yes we have alters who are German). We stay in the body’s lane and advocate to boost the voices of people who are biologically of these descents. While we have the room to speak on(in particular Hispanic) culture due to the body being raised in a Hispanic culture, but other than that we stay in our lane
Hi I am very new to all this and I have 1 question & 1 comment (and if I get no answer that is ok). I'm not plural I'm just learning.
1. What's the difference between fictive & factive? I've seen them both in discussion online but no explanation yet
2. Several different systems I've seen while reading blogs & forums like this have a fictive from the dreamsmp I just thought that was interesting
For the first one, a fictive is an introject of a fictional character while a factive is one of a real person. There are also sort of in-between areas like fogtives or fuzztives that are sort of both, and as for MCYT introjects that’s something you see a lot when it comes to ‘this is a real person but also they’re in character’. Also, reminder to not treat those fictives like their source unless it is specifically specified that that’s okay.
Hello! I’m an OSDD system in which I feel like I can speak on this-
1. Fictive is an introject(an alter of) a fictional character, while a factive is a real life person(usually family, friends, or @bu$3r$)
2. Popular media is more likely to have someone out there have fictive of them- in which we are one of those systems! We personally know and understand that we aren’t physically that person and can’t speak on their experiences, but most of us go by our source name(character only, none of us except for Clay/Dream go by our sources real life name, mostly because our sources prefer people don’t call them their real life name) and are similar to our source, but some alters have yet to make that realization. Please be kind and don’t reality check(remind them that they aren’t their source, and try and tell them they aren’t real) as this can cause harm to the system and the alter-
Remember to be kind, and stay smiling, Ranboo(I’m from origins SMP, I use she/her pronouns)
Okay, here's our answer. Sorry it's so long @_@
1a. A fictive is an introject of a fictional character. For example, our system is fictive-heavy due to our being autistic and largely hyperfixating on and having special interests related to fiction. These works of fiction and their characters are a very important and central coping mechanism for us, which means that in times of distress, we turn to stories, and when we split (due to intense stress, negative experiences, or trauma), many alters end up being strongly influenced by those stories and their characters. We're very sensitive to splits, which can again be partially attributed to autism and how it lowers the trauma threshold. Most of our fictives deviate from their sources in some manner, bar about three.
1b. Factives are introjects of real people. These can be friends, family, ab*sers, or sometimes celebrities. We have two factives that we're aware of: one of a close friend (possible F/P but we don't know whether we have borderline or not), and one of Gerard Way. The first, whose name I will not disclose, was split off due to an intense attachment to and longing for that friend that caused our mental health to deteriorate, eventually getting so bad that it resulted in splitting off an introject of him. We have worked to rebuild our relationship with him as something healthier and more balanced since then. Gee, our Gerard Way introject, showed up because of a long-running special interest on MCR, whose music and history became a way for us to cope with the noise and stress of our parents' intense fights, during one of which he split off.
2. Fictives are becoming more common as consumption of fictional works, as well as coping through engagement with fictional works, increases. The Dream SMP has become a very common coping mechanism for teens, which means that there will be more systems with DSMP introjects. Fakeclaimers especially tend to target teenage-bodied systems (I say this because alters' ages can vary) because they are the most visible on social media, claiming that "you're too young to be a system," when DID, OSDD, and other dissociative disorders quite literally form in childhood. Guess what? That means that...oh my god! There can be teenage systems! And hosts most commonly begin to discover alters from the mid teens onward! We are bodily a minor, though we won't disclose our age for personal safety. The only reason we noticed in the first place was that fictives kept fronting while the former host was co-fronting, and he kept attributing it to being fictionkin, but then he was pushed out of co-front and into headspace and finally figured out that these "shifts" were alters. And when we told our friend (the one mentioned in part 1b, who is extremely perceptive and studies psychology), his response was "yeah, I've known for a while," followed by a lot of consolation and a little bit of making fun of our density.
I'll shut up now. Thank you for reading my infodump. Have a nice day.
Thank you so much! I have a lot of systems as friends and I’ve always been curious about the fictives! I’m currently trying to talk to as many alters from the systems as I can so I can come to know them better and maybe learn about DID too! I’m currently married (I know it sounds weird but I mean platonically as in friendship and it’s a poly relationship as in more than 2 people in it. I know it sounds odd but it’s actually very cool!) to 3 different fictive alters all from the same I guess “show”/“series” (if you would call a Minecraft rp a series/show that is) and it’s really nice to be able to understand them better! Sorry if the way i worded things sounded disrespectful in any way, that was never my intention.
I love how respectful you are about this- not a lot of people usually are! Just remember to treat them how they want, respect boundaries, try not to reality check any fictives/factives/introjects, and have fun! Who knows, you may find an introject of a comfort character of yours and get to, in a sense, meet them! Cool, innit?
Does a fictive have memories from their story
Sometimes, in my case I have memories of essentially my entire life no different from a singlet’s, which has become a struggle for me considering that I have to come to grips with none of that being real. On the other hand, though, some have no memories or attachment to their source at all, and some are in between. There’s no one way to be an introject, in the end.
Hi! I know a system who recently developed a fictive alter of a character I really love from a a show I really love and talk about a lot. Would it be wrong to talk about the events of the show with her? I really don’t want her to feel like I’m taking advantage of her. I’ve honestly been avoiding talking to her out of fear I’ll get over excited. Also they (the system) do follow me on social media where I post about the show and sometimes she (the alter) will comment something along the lines of “oh I remember that!!” which I’m not entirely sure how to respond to. Anyways. This got long. Sorry.
It all depends on your relationship with her. I'd ask her about it. It woupd show you care.
Also, if she goes through any traumatic experience in the show, I'd avoid those topics unless she brings it up.
Hi, I was wondering, my friend's friend has done and only has fictives, now I do not know anything from the person but it seems kind of weird to me (not trying to ignorant I'm genuinely confused sorry if I offended anyone) that the person ONLY has fictive? is that something that can happen?
Since you don't personally know them, we can't assume that they "only" have fictives. They probably have non-fictive alters but probably have not yet to meet them due to the fictive alters were fronting the most. It's not bad to ask them. There's someone I know who mostly has fictives fronting and one point asked them if they only have fictives and to my surprise, they have non-fictives. There's really nothing bad about asking someone to know better.
hey, as a system we almost always have non-fictives but sometimes the non-fictives don't like fronting because of trauma or any other reason there is also the fact that sometimes there can be more fictives than non-fictives and sometimes they don't front infront of other people or are taking care of the littles :) i myself am a Factive from the dreamsmp im Technoblade and i am the main fronter so i am considered the host so that is another reason
i think that it is possible to have a system of only fictives - though very rare, as the host usually isnt a fictive.
some of the DID systems I know develop fictives from their hyperfixations/special interests. my question is, if a hf/si dies down, what happens to the fictive from that interest? will they merge with another alter? will they keep existing as a fictive? will their personality/identity develop beyond the character they were based on? will they... disappear? I know it's probably not the same among all systems but I'm curious
For us we have a fictive alter from a series we were fixated on in highschool and he's still around, though he did go quiet for a few years between then and now.
It probably does vary based on each system and their needs, but for us he's gone beyond his roots and become more his own person. While still loosely related to the source material he's more a well rounded person with hobbies and such, and also a valued friend :)
Yeah, they stay. We have a fictive based off of Hello Kitty still here.
HI!!! I'm the host of our system. we developed a fictive from my hyper fixation. we and our counselor have been working on integrating into at the very most, 5 alters, and she said that fictives formed by hf can be integrated even if the hf doesn't die down. she doesn't specialize in DID/OSDD, but she did study on it for awhile. the reason alters integrate is because the alter isn't needed for what it formed for. for example: trauma holders will integrate into the host because the host finally learned how to deal with the trauma. Or, the protector and the host will integrate because the host now knows how to protect themselves.
For our system, the fictive we've developed, was to "please"(?) people because of our more recent trauma that we hadn't learned to deal with yet, so if I we to learn how to deal with that the fictive would integrate with me.
Overall, fictives don't disappear, they will integrate with someone. (i hoped this helped, I'm not that good at explaining)
It definitely depends person to person, but I can definitely say that for us, usually fictives will start to become their own person, almost completely separate from the character they started as, except a few physical and/or mental attributes. I know I act completely different than when I first fronted around five years ago, but everyone is bound to at least a little bit after that long. I've even chosen a new name a few months ago because I don't want people to see me as him anymore.
-Elliot (Underfell Papyrus)
Hello, I do have a question; I've looked it up several times and have not gotten any search results. I am curious if a kin can BECOME a fictive in a way? I already have two others with me (Dell Conagher, an Engineer fictive adapted from Team Fortress 2, and Samuel Lawrence, a fictive adapted from pre-game Bendy and the Ink Machine), and I myself kin as well, but one specific kin feels separate from me, similar to how Sam and Dell do. However, the kin itself is non-canon, and is separate from the source material slightly. I just wanted to know if it was possible?
Hi! I don't have an answer, but I experience similar confusion! In my opinion I think that it would make sense, since, like, you kin things that are comforting and you can relate to, and depending on the enormity of that relation, I don't see why that wouldn't be used by your brain as material for a fictive... if that makes sense... I'm not an expert by any means, but those are just my thoughts....... let me know if you want to talk about this more because I've been looking into it and haven't been able to find anything about it either lol
Hello I may have an answer for this! Our newest fictive is Darryl/BadBoyHalo from the DreamSMP, who I had kinned prior to his creation split, so it definitely is possible. As for the kin being non-canon, I'm not exactly sure if it matters if it's canon or not, seeing as they may not take on all of the traits of that kin. I hope this helps you guys!
My name is Dell Conahger. I am an alter of my adopted son, Thomas. Myself and seven others are adapted from the game Team Fortress 2. He didn't have a father growing up so when I came to exist I became that for him. Myself and the other seven have saved his life and completely turned him in a new direction. We saved him from his abusive mom, his self, and got him a job and a new place to stay. I love my son and I am so incredibly proud of him. I can't wait to see what he does next.
Having a system made out of fictive alters can be overwhelming sometimes for me because if I switch a lot, we'll end up getting headaches. It's a pain to switch constantly, but I know that they're there for a reason, and I couldn't be happier to have them.
all the ones I run into say they are literaly that character. not a coping mechanism. they are really that person, or was them in a past life.
that the memories of being that character happen, that they have pstd from what happened in their story
That sounds like people who believe in kintyping and the alternate universe theory, not people with DID.
I have many pseudo memories of what occurred in my life before this one as do many introjects. I feel as though I am my own self and I will not deny myself of that because of others' perceptions of me. Pseudo memories will often occur in introjects, other introjects may feel trauma from these, its otherwise normal things.
Pseudomemories are a real thing. One of our fictives has ptsd in his source, and his trauma affects him just as much as mine affects me.
Well, in my case, I had PTSD-like reactions to the sight of the common eye-in-the-triangle symbol years and years before the Gravity Falls TV show came out, and never had any idea why. I looked it up and it's supposed to be a positive symbol with many good associations but I cannot tolerate the sight of it. Now, I have no idea if I have DID or not, I'm functional in my daily life, but there are many things such as this that made no sense at all till I figured out that I am Ford-kin.
being a cartoon character is real and valid
It's not "being a cartoon character". See, if you read the article with an open mind, or a mind at all, they're called fictives, and they aren't completely made up of a cartoon character and don't even have to be one. They share certain personality traits. Some more than others. And that's okay and that's valid
It honestly makes complete sense to me, and I’m not sure why there’s so much debate around the topic of whether or not fictives exist or not. Seems completely understandable that someone, especially a child, could watch a cartoon or something, and take a character from that and wish that they had their super powers or whatever to get away. Like superheroes, for instance, it makes sense that someone, especially someone suffering severe trauma, would look at something like a superhero and either wish they had their powers to get away or actually have a real life superhero to come in and rescue them from horrific abuse. I know fictives can be a wide array of various fictional characters, but I just used the superhero as an example. Makes total sense how somebody with DID could develop these types of alters.
They're not "cartoon characters". They are alters based off of fictional characters, so please don't call us that. It sucks and is annoying.